Posts by Merry Magdalene

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Kid-A: Are the christian infidels going to hell?

Although the Qur'an describes those who will go to hell so we can do our personal best to make sure we are not among them, judgment is for Allah alone and He reserves the right to pardon who He will. I do not know who is and who is not going to hell.

" Those with Faith, those who are Jews, and the Christians and Sabaeans, all who have Faith in Allah and the Last Day and act rightly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow." (Surat al-Baqara; 2:62).

" Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition, and argue with them in the kindest way. Your Lord knows best who is misguided from His way. And He knows best who are guided." (Surat an-Nahl; 16:125).

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Ken: Why do you never hear a Muslin condem blowing up people, including children by their own demented followers?

Valid question. Why don't we hear this condemnation?

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/janardhan.php?articleid=4064

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1690624.stm

http://www.thedailystar.net/2003/10/15/d31015020530.htm

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

And not to be overlooked-- thanks to Narkissos for his always interesting comments and the link as well!

And thanks to unbeliever for telling us her friends' stories. I am glad they are in a safer, better place for them now, and I sincerely hope that more and more people will become aware that what was done to them and others like them in the name of Islam is not supported by the Qur'an and very much needs to be changed, not perpetuated.

Hello again, Glitter! Did you read through the links I provided? They discuss this issue in more detail than I could reasonably quote here.

What I read at the Muslim apostate sites was a mixed bag and I had to do a lot of sorting. Some of them were people with bad experiences like unbeliever's friends, some made interesting points which triggered new questions and caused me to do further research, all of which were either satisfactorily answered pro-Islamically for me or are still in process (being contemplated and further researched). I did not know that much about Muslims at present or throughout history when I became a Muslim myself, and my decision (or awakening awareness) was not based on what others believe or do but on my own reading of the meaning of the Qur'an. It certainly has been an amazing learning experience on both fronts.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Thank you, Linda. And it is good to hear from you. I am wishing you all the best with your healing process--much strength and peace, healing tears and moments of profound joy as needed, and all the support and love you could ever want. And the same for Trev. I think you are both very special.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Glitter: And we used to put kids down mines and up chimneys in the olden days too. It would be ridiculous in the 21st Century to follow a religion made up by a violent Victorian child-labour-using mine owner wouldn't it.

I can well understand your passion for the protection and well-being of children and I applaud it.

Please also consider how Aisha was treated and regarded:

it is of the greatest relevance to note the pivotal role she played as a teacher, exponent and interpreter of the religion of Islam. Aisha was an exceptionally intelligent and astute woman, a young prodigy, and this was the main reason why she was got married to the Holy Prophet, as is clearly proved by events after the Holy Prophet’s life. She entered his household, shortly after his emigration to Madina, just at the time when the teachings of Islam in all fields of life for the Muslim community were starting to be revealed to the Holy Prophet and demonstrated by him by his example and practice. An intellectually gifted person was required who would have daily contact with the Holy Prophet at the closest and most personal level, so as to absorb the teachings that he was giving on all aspects of life by his words and actions. Such a person would need to possess the following qualities:
an excellent, precise memory to retain a vast amount of detail accurately,
the understanding to grasp the significance and the principles of the teachings,
powers of reasoning, criticism and deduction to resolve problems on the basis of those teachings,
the skills to convey knowledge to a wide range of audience,
and, finally, have the prospect of living for a considerable period of time after the death of the Holy Prophet in order to spread his message to distant generations.
That Aisha possessed all these qualities and carried out this mission is an absolutely positive and undeniable, historical fact. After the Holy Prophet’s death, she acted as a teacher and interpreter of Islam, providing guidance to even the greatest of the male Companions of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. They made a special point of going to her to gain knowledge and seek her opinion. A vast number of sayings and actions of the Holy Prophet are reported from her in books of Hadith. She not only quoted his sayings and reported her observations of events, but interpreted them to provide solutions to questions. Whenever necessary, she corrected the views of the greatest of the Companions of the Holy Prophet. She made rulings and judgments on which Islamic law is based.
The following are two examples of what the Holy Prophet’s male Companions said about her:
“Abu Musa said: Whenever there was any hadith that was difficult [to understand] for us, the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, and we asked Aisha we always found that she had knowledge about that hadith.”
“Musa ibn Talha said: I never saw anyone more eloquent than Aisha.” [1]
http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

And this is also interesting to me:

As to the authenticity of these reports, it may be noted that the compilers of the books of Hadith did not apply the same stringent tests when accepting reports relating to historical matters as they did before accepting reports relating to the practical teachings and laws of Islam. The reason is that the former type of report was regarded as merely of academic interest while the latter type of report had a direct bearing on the practical duties of a Muslim and on what was allowed to them and what was prohibited. Thus the occurrence of reports such as the above about the marriage of Aisha in books of Hadith, even in Bukhari, is not necessarily a proof of their credibility.
Determination of the true age of Aisha
It appears that Maulana Muhammad Ali was the first Islamic scholar directly to challenge the notion that Aisha was aged six and nine, respectively, at the time of her nikah and consummation of marriage. This he did in, at least, the following writings: his English booklet Prophet of Islam, his larger English book Muhammad, the Prophet, and in the footnotes in his voluminous Urdu translation and commentary of Sahih Bukhari entitled Fadl-ul-Bari, these three writings being published in the 1920s and 1930s. In the booklet Prophet of Islam, which was later incorporated in 1948 as the first chapter of his book Living Thoughts of the Prophet Muhammad, he writes in a lengthy footnote as follows:
.... http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm (read the rest for more details)

There does not appear to be absolute certainty how old Aisha was at the time of consummation, but it is generally agreed that she was old enough in terms of the time and place in which she lived, and that marriage at the onset of puberty has not been an uncommon practice in a broad span of cultures and times.

Paedophilia and child abuse is not something I can support or defend, especially not in the name of God, so it was important to me to discover the truth of the matter. I have been praying about it, expressing my desire for the truth (whatever it might be and wherever it might lead). Someone had tried to explain it to me before, but it was not enough for me, and I had done searches before but they did not turn up this amount and type of information. Typing in the phrase 'age of consent' along with aisha helped. It is food for thought.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

'Morning, LT~

That is interesting and not something of which I was aware. I did a quick search and found this

http://www.towardsislam.com/dan_1988/2006/02/why-did-prophet-muhammed-marry-aisha.html

which happens to mention

The Campaign To Raise The Age Of Consent, 1885-1994 ( http://womhist.binghamton.edu/teacher/aoc.htm)

[note the education domain] states: "American reformers were shocked to discover that the laws of most states set the age of consent at the age of ten or twelve, and in one state, Delaware, the age of consent was only seven ."

and also addresses the issue of paedophilia.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

I apologize, Zeroday, for not responding directly to your comments as they are not entirely clear to me. I think I get the general idea, but not enough to frame a reply.

Hillary Step: Can I ask, what do you put this experience down to, now that you are a Muslim?

Sure, no problem. I have to say that this was a hard one for me to be honest with myself about as I was very attached to my mystical 'experiences' both as a Pagan and a Christian. Now I would agree with you that they can't be relied on to prove anything. It seems to me that they can lock you into a sort of closed cycle of an (oft times hidden) belief or desire creating an experience, with the experience in turn being used to further create and support the initial belief and/or desire. I don't know about the chemical aspect of it, though.

I did not have a similar 'experience' in becoming a Muslim, although I have had some 'incidents' since then. I remain more detached from them now. I don't take them and run with them, so to speak. I wish I could speak more clearly on this. It's a little difficult to find the words. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I find that if I keep these things to myself or limit conversation to those who feel the same way I do, it becomes easier to lapse into laziness and even dishonesty with myself. Although I guess that can also be a danger when feeling constantly on the defense. I feel like this thread is striking a nice balance and I appreciate that.

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Ahhh, that was beautiful, LT.

And I'm glad you're back, WAC, cos I didn't know how to respond to ""

LT: WAC:
You have a set of beliefs, yourself, even if you don't call them "religion". Why do you choose to limit yourself?

That's kinda what I was going to say, but then again isn't "limited" a lot like "confined?"

LT: Your soul is too celtic to remain confined for long...

Or am I missing an important distinction?

~Merry

147

Merry Becomes A Muslim (a bit long)

by Merry Magdalene in

who is merry?

i was born in 1965, the same year that malcolm x was assassinated.

my father had committed suicide a few months into my mother's pregnancy so we lived with her parents until she married again when i was about 18 months old.

Merry Magdalene

Euphamism: First off, kudos for converting to Islam in a tiny town in Northern Idaho. You obviously aren't too concerned with what people think of you. Or maybe you enjoy being different. I am generally of the opinion that I don't do things just for the sake of being different, I need a better motivation than that, yet I do kind of like being different. I've have also always been concerned with what people think of me; I crave understanding and acceptance, and there is a part of me that wishes I could please everyone all the time. But I try not to allow that to control my decisions, to run my life or even to interfere too much. Seeking to please God above all else has been a good antidote, I think.
Question, though... how can you really say that this is not driven by emotion, unlike your previous religious experiences? I have no doubt that you have found something positive and fulfilling within the Islamic tradition, and part of that seems to be the explicit disavowal of personal fulfillment. (Narkissos has written some great stuff in the past about the appeal of self-renunciation; mostly in a Christian/JW context, but it sounds similar to what you are doing now as well.) I maintain that my present experience and conversion was not driven by emotion although it does contain an emotional component. I don't think I disavow personal fulfillment, Islam is not about asceticism, but I do not make it my main focus and the criteria by which I guide my actions. That is the difference.
OTOH, can you fully say that you accept Islam as an intellectual proposition? If you've read through the Quran several times, you realize that it contains not only the many positive quotes from the site that you linked to, but also many quotes that I suspect you disagree with (e.g. the infamous 'fight and slay the pagans wherever you may find them' (9:5); fornicators or adulterers should be flogged with a hundred stripes (24:2); condemnation of homosexuality; etc). The scholars of Sharia and Wahabbism can support their position from the Quran just as eloquently as the more liberal Muslims can. I am still studying and researching what you mention here, but I can tell you that balance and context is essential for understanding and acceptance and translation of these matters into daily modern life and law.
Even slavery--you say that the Quran discouraged slavery, but still allowed it. That is understandable given its historical context. But if the book is so dependent on historical context, how can you say that it is "what everyone thinks God, in theory, should have given to mankind but didn't"? Shouldn't the book that God gives, if there is such a thing, be good for all times and places? I do believe it is good for all times and places, and soon I hope to do an in depth investigation into this subject, as well as a couple others. I believe the instructions as they were given would naturally lead to a phasing out of the slavery that then existed, at least for those who understood and implemented the guidance therein.

Thanks for all the comments and questions. As I hope you can tell, I don't have all the answers, but I am not afraid of questions, my own or anyone elses, and I am pleased to be able to hold a reasonable discussion about it. I am not offended by your feelings, thoughts and perspectives, and I do not feel under attack. There is a difference between attacking someone and challenging them, and I love to be challenged. The other I don't like so much.

~Merry